Episode 29

full
Published on:

4th May 2026

Roommate Mode and Midlife Relationships: A Conversation with Katie Rössler

Content warning: Katie shares some a surprising history, so this is one you might not what to listen to this with young kids in the car.

In this episode, Erica is joined by Katie Rössler, relationship strategist and couples counselor, to talk about what perimenopause is really doing to our relationships.

Katie shares what she sees when couples come to her — almost always in roommate mode, functioning well as a household but emotionally disconnected. She talks about how perimenopause becomes the catalyst that forces couples to do the deeper work, why both partners need to understand this season of life, and what shifts when the person who has always kept the peace finally starts to wake up.

This is a conversation about relationships, identity, and why midlife might be the most important portal you'll ever walk through — together.

Katie Rössler hosts the weekly podcast Relationship Reset and works with couples who have been together more than ten years. Find her at katierossler.com.

Website: https://www.katierossler.com

Podcast: https://www.katierossler.com/podcast

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katierossler

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RelationshipResetwithKatie

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Transcript
Erica Voell:

Welcome to the Unfolding Podcast, a space where we explore what

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it looks like to really trust yourself,

say no without guilt, and live your

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life like it actually belongs to you.

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I am Erica Voell, a Decision Mentor

and Inner-Trust Guide, and I help

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women in midlife untangle from the

life patterns of shape shifting

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and keeping everyone else happy.

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Claim how they are uniquely

designed to make decisions and

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understand their unique strengths.

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Using human design as a lens, we clear the

noise of conditioning so their no feels

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powerful and their yes feels true, and

they can move forward without self-doubt,

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guilt, or the pressure to prove anything.

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On this show, we have honest

conversations about self-trust boundaries.

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Energy and identity, especially for women

in midlife who are done living by the

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shoulds and second guessing themselves.

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If you've taken every personality test,

followed the recommended path, and still

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can't shake the feeling that you've been

spending your whole life trying to fit in

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when what you really wanted was to belong.

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You're in the right place.

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You'll hear stories, insights,

and tools rooted in human

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design, coaching, and real life.

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Not to tell you what to do, like

another self-help book, but to help you

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really hear yourself so you can stop

overthinking and start making decisions

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that feel grounded, clear, and true.

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Today we have a special guest.

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Katie Rössler has spent 20 years in the

therapy world and focuses on relationship

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strategy, but what she really does is

coaches, guides, mentors, and walks

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beside couples who are ready to rebuild.

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She fights for your relationship with

you while speaking the truth you both

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need to hear, so real growth can happen.

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Her approach blends practical

tools with a holistic lens always

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grounded in deep empathy and clarity.

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Katie will make you laugh.

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Help you trust your own voice

again and guide you to tune out

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that noise of what others say you

should do because they are not you.

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She has authored two books, the Face of

Grief, and Giving Birth to Motherhood.

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She's spoken on stages internationally

supported companies like BCG and, Celonis

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and Amazon through workshops and trainings

for their teams and host the weekly

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podcast relationship reset for couples who

have been together for more than 10 years.

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Katie and I connected through our

human design coach, and I was recently

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part of her Behind the Transformation

Summit, and we hit it off instantly.

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She's such a delight and I think you're

gonna find this conversation to be one

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that touches a nerve with women in the

best way, and it's one you're gonna

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wanna come back to for a second listen.

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So welcome Katie to the Unfolding podcast.

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I'm so glad you're here.

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Katie Rössler: Thank you, Erica.

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I'm really looking

forward to our chat today.

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Erica Voell: Yeah.

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So tell us what you do and about

you and how you ended up working

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with the people that you work with.

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Katie Rössler: Yeah, so I'm a relationship

strategist and couples counselor.

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Um, I've been licensed for.

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Almost 20 years.

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And um, I work with high achieving couples

who've been together for over 10 years,

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and they're feeling like roommates.

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And they talk a lot of logistics

and not so much love anymore.

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And I teach them how to have better

communication and connection and start

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to get vulnerable again with each

other, but in a way that feels safe,

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rather than feeling like, oh, this

could be used against me later on.

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Um, and I live in Munich, Germany.

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Uh, I'm a mom of three kids.

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I married a German, that's

why I moved over here.

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Everybody always asks

military, and I'm like, no.

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But I was a military kid.

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So yes, in my past.

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Now I just married a German.

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That's why we're here.

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Um, and I am.

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Create, um, groups and do one-on-ones

with couples as well as I have

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specifically a perimenopause community

called Behind the Transformation where

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we talk about things other than just

symptoms and more of the identity

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changes and the shifts we feel in our

relationships during this time as well.

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Erica Voell: Hmm, I love this.

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And so you said you moved to Germany.

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When did you move to Germany?

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I'm curious and like how did things shift

for you personally and did you notice

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a difference in how you're experiencing

midlife and relationships there?

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Katie Rössler: Yeah, great question.

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So we moved here, it'll be 10 years

in June and um, it was something

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we always knew we were going to do.

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I was pregnant with our second, which is

like the perfect time to move countries.

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Pregnant with a toddler.

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Um, and you know, it's a great

question about like going through

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midlife in another country because

I don't know what it's like in my

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home country to go through midlife.

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I only know what it was like

to go through up until 31, 32.

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Uh, I will say the challenges I'm

facing right now is more along.

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The lines of like, what's culturally

okay to talk about or not, right?

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Like with, with the German friends,

like what are they comfortable with?

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Thankfully, they're just like many others,

they're waking up to learning more.

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They're desiring to learn more.

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Um, but I would say those who are about

five to 10 years older than me are not

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always so comfortable to talk about it.

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Um, there's also sort of a feeling of

like, I just have to create my tribe.

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Rather than try to find a tribe

here, uh, to go on this walk.

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And I think that's, that's been

something though, that's kind of part

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of my design and nature since I was

little and moving around all the time.

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You kind of had to create your community

and your, your tribe and your group.

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Um.

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I would say that pieces that I think are

a little more difficult is, you know,

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there's some things that I know that I

want to have to support me in this phase

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of life, health wise or emotionally,

mentally, and sometimes those things are

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either harder to find or to translate

into what is it here and where do I find

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it, and who do I have to go to to get it.

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So it kind of makes the ease

of, of getting those resources,

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uh, a little more of a pain.

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And so of course that stops you from

being like, let me just go get that.

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You know, that thing that I, I read

about that will support me, whether

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it be a supplement or whatever, right?

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And you're like, oh, I have to order it.

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I have to this and blah, blah.

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That piece has been challenging for sure.

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Mm-hmm.

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And are you finding that women,

German women are just experiencing

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things differently from what you're

seeing in the US and other countries?

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No, I would say it's

probably about the same.

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'cause when I talk to my, uh, American

friends, there's definitely sort

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of this age gap of when people are

willing to talk about perimenopause

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and menopause and feel comfortable

about discussing, getting older.

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There's absolutely, you've got the,

like the two camps here, right?

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The like, I'm gonna go get Botox and I'm

gonna get my lips done and all this stuff.

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'cause I'm not, I don't want to age.

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And then you've got the, like I'm

anti all of that, all natural,

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you know, no hormone support.

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Um, I like to be in that

middle camp of like.

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Hey, let me just figure it out as I go.

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Uh, but I, I, but I've heard that

that's happening in the states too,

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where it's like, you know, everybody's

this way or everybody's like, all

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natural fitness route, this thing.

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And it's like, what about the people

that are just like, a little bit

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of this, a little bit of that,

you know, you know, pepper it in.

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Let's see.

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Um.

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Yeah, so I would say as far as the German

friends, it's been me talking about it

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and me putting it on my podcast and me

hosting events that has opened their eyes.

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And I would say this year alone,

I've had two or three friends say,

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thank you so much I would not have

known because my, my other German

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friends are not talking about it.

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And when we do talk about it, you

can tell it's very like either

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anti this pro this, there's not a

like, let's just have a discussion.

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You know, let's just

talk about what we think.

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Um, so the resources, again, I

built my tribe, but I also, I find

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the resources and I create the

things that I realize that I need.

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And it's actually helping the friends here

who don't really have that voice just yet.

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Erica Voell: Mm.

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I love that.

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So tell me about how you are bringing

that into the perimenopause, into the room

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with a couple that you're working with.

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Yeah, if they've, whether or not

they've named it or if it's even

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something they've considered about

how it's affecting their relationship.

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'cause I know for me, like

I thought I was going crazy.

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I thought I was the one who was

like, why am I so irritable?

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And why do I just wanna, why

do I hate everybody today?

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Like I just wanted to get in

the car and drive far and not.

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Not talk to anybody.

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And like I thought I was the one

going crazy and then I learned about

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perimenopause and it was like, oh my gosh.

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Okay.

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There's a reason I'm feeling this way.

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And I know you've talked about the

caterpillar and the chrysalis and it

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just like, we just turned too mush mush.

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Yes.

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So tell me more about working that,

bringing that in with couples work.

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Katie Rössler: Yeah, it's, it's

interesting, I've been writing more

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and more about this on LinkedIn, um,

to, to push some buttons because I say

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it's a journey you're both going on.

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So you both need to be educated.

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You both need to be aware because whether

you know whether it's your body or not.

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You're along for the ride.

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The emotions are there.

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The silence, the, the hot flashes in

the night and the elbow in the face,

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wake up, you know, like it we're, we're

on it together and it's very much, I,

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I think of it like with my husband,

you know, when we moved to Germany, he

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went through reverse culture shock and

he's also hit burnout a couple times

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where it's really impacted his health.

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Yeah, that's been a journey

I've had to go on with him.

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It's not something that's just

his, so this is my journey

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that he gets to go on with me.

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Just like when I lost my mother and

dealt with that grief as much as we

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were co grieving, it was my mother.

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So it was even more of my own journey.

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It is not a journey going alone.

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So I always tell couples

that from the beginning.

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Once I can identify, yes, she's in

that phase of life, or she's not

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aware of it yet, but I'm gonna slowly

add little, oh, have you talked

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to your gynecologist about this?

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Oh, the sleep problems?

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Oh, the memory loss.

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Oh hey, you know, the things that

you guys are discussing in session

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that's actually causing fights.

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Has a hormonal reason.

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It, it has a neurological reason and

they're both like big-eyed, like what?

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Especially the sleep.

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I've had multiple clients

where I've had to say, one, I

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really encourage you to go get.

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Checkup with your gynecologist

and talk about the symptoms.

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And second, go get a sleep study

because your lack of sleep, good,

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consistent sleep is causing high levels

of anxiety and paranoia, which is

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also being exacerbated by estrogen and

progesterone, like jumping all up and

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down like a wild rollercoaster, right?

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And so no wonder your partner feels like

they can't do an either ring, right?

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And no wonder they're escaping.

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And no wonder, and it's not to like

point the finger like you're the

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problem, but it's, hey, these symptoms

are exacerbating your ability to

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show up as the partner you wanna be.

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And it's creating a system

where you lash out in such a way

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which is not typical for you.

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But that your partner really, like, I

can coach him all day long on how to,

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how to sit with that when I, you know,

I hate you or you can't do anything

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wrong, you failed me every time.

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Right?

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Like those things, I can coach him on

it, but wouldn't it just be nice if

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like we could have a little more control

over those pieces of us, or a better

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understanding of like, I'm about to say

the thing, I should stop, but when you're

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only getting four hours of sleep a night.

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You know, and you're not

getting any type of support.

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I like, I, I'm really great at what

I do, Erica, but I cannot fix that.

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Like, that's the piece where

I'm like, I can't help that.

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So I've even had, you know, couples

who've been like, a few of them been

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like, let's get that taken care of

before we go any deeper into this.

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Because sometimes we create.

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Deeper wounds.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, and, and a deeper meaning to

things because of what we're going

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through in this face of life than

what we would like, Hey, yeah.

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It's a problem.

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It's kinda like when we were, you know,

when you're on your period and you've got

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like, you're like PMSing right before,

and so everything feels a little, your

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nervous system heightens everything.

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Like that's it almost every day.

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Yeah.

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So.

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Hey, let's do some things to support.

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Let's make sure you're getting the sleep.

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Let's get a little exercise in there.

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Some sunlight would be amazing.

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Check your vitamin D, you know,

if you don't wanna do HRT,

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like, okay, what other things?

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And now let's start working on things.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I find that the couples,

the women who really take it

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seriously and say, you know what?

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I gotta own my stuff.

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And the men who take it

seriously, you know what?

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I cannot keep bringing work home.

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I gotta find some good stress outlets.

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I gotta go to sleep on time.

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I gotta do some healthy things and

take, do some sport and I gotta

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go get my hormones checked too.

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'cause reality check, they're

going through stuff too.

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Mm-hmm.

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Those are the couples that thrive together

because it's not a you're the problem,

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you're the problem, you're the problem.

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It's like, let me, let

me really look at myself.

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Mm-hmm.

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And oh yeah.

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And how I'm showing up.

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I educate, uh, I set some boundaries

on how far we can get if they're

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not willing to do certain things.

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And I always hold my couples responsible

individually for themselves, and anytime

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they get into the like victim villain

kind of dance, I'm like, hold on.

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Because as the victim, you now look

like the villain to your partner

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and they feel like the victim.

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So, uh, um, my clients know, like I have

such a deep love and respect for each

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one of them, but I will speak truth to

them and I will hold them to the fire of

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what they've asked me to hold them to.

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If they've said we want a better

relationship, that's what we're here for.

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Mm.

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If they've said, my goal is better

communication, then when you make that

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side comment because you're in that

righteous rage, 'cause we feel it.

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We feel it, I'm gonna call you out on that

and, and when you escape partner to that

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righteous rage and you evade and you start

drinking and you do whatever to avoid.

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I'm calling you out on that too.

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'cause somebody finally has to

point the mirror at us instead

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of our partner always doing it.

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Yeah.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah.

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It's worth working on this.

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Erica Voell: Yeah, that's really hard.

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We don't wanna see that part of ourselves.

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We really don't.

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And that sleep part, that was

about the time that I started

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just like I was not sleeping.

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My husband was snoring more, he

was, his legs were moving more.

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And I saw my nutritionist and

she's like, Erica, you look like

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you haven't slept in months.

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And I was like, I don't feel

like I've been sleeping well.

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So we have separate bedrooms

and because I'm a night owl,

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he's an early bird like we are.

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S both sleeping so much better.

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And I know that there are a lot of

people who are like, oh my gosh,

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you sleep in separate bedrooms.

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But like, that is my sanctuary.

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Yep.

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He has his sanctuary.

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Like we love it.

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It, it's really improved our relationship.

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And then.

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When I'm having a bad day, I can just go

to my room and I can just have my time.

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And my daughter has her time

in her own room, so and I,

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Katie Rössler: yep.

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Erica Voell: And for so many women,

I think for some of us, like I have

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a kid who's getting ready to go into.

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Puberty.

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So I feel like we're both in

it together, like yeah, we're,

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we're, we're experiencing, my

poor husband is experiencing

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the two tracks at the same time.

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So

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Katie Rössler: yes, I, I worked

with a father of two daughters.

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And had his wife and he said, I would

go out into the garage, I had my little

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like cooler box back there and I'd

get these big old Hershey bars, I'd,

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I'd order 'em when they were on sale

and I'd bring it in on the counter

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'cause they were all on the same cycle.

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And I'd bring out the knife and

I'd hack it into three pieces.

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And I'd just give an, I'D sit

at the table and just listen.

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You're a good dad and a good husband.

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You know, you know, so absolutely.

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Most of us are going through this

phase of life with, if you've

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got children, you, you've got

them going into puberty or in it.

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And let's add in.

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Some of us have aging parents.

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Erica Voell: Yeah.

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Katie Rössler: And if you've got a

parent with dementia or starting to

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show signs of certain health issues,

you're dealing with somebody who

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emotionally, mentally, might be younger.

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So, right.

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Like it's at, at both ends while

we're just trying to walk the path.

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Erica Voell: Mm-hmm.

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So in the summit that you talked that

I was part of, I, it was so amazing

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and I loved hearing about other people,

talking about the relationship shifts.

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Um, when people come to

you, what stage are they?

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Are they at.

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Katie Rössler: Roommate mode every time.

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It's like, you know, I, I mean,

I could call, like I look at them

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like, are you guys in roommate mode?

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How'd you know?

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Because that's when people come to me.

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Um, roommate mode is, we

talk practical things.

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Uh, we're really good at, you know, we, we

will get the projects done, or maybe one's

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doing a little bit more than the other.

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Right.

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But we don't, and I also call it

the emotional divorce that feels

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very strong for many people.

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They don't like that word divorce.

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But it is, there's no, there's no

emotional connection to the same level.

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But you're, you're, you're paying the

bills, you're paying the bills, you're

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getting people where they need to be.

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At the end of the day,

you're having dinner.

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That's it.

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And that's when people come to me.

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Um, very rarely do I have people

come to me that are fully in

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that, um, should be divorce.

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I do get that.

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It used to be way more than it is now,

but I have been really strong about

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saying, I'm not here to save your

marriage, but I'm here to give you the

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tools for you to work on your marriage.

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Um, I do have usually the, the woman

especially, has done the, should I stay or

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should I go question already, internally?

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And eventually she'll admit that to me,

like, I've been thinking about this.

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Is this really worth it?

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Does this make sense?

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And then spoiler alert, the

husband's been thinking it too.

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Mm.

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Because typically if one is

like, this is miserable, the

366

:

other one feels that way too.

367

:

They may just not say it

or have the words for it.

368

:

Uh, but yeah, I would say roommate mode.

369

:

That's when people come where it's like,

great, we can, you know, run a household.

370

:

Mm-hmm.

371

:

That's it.

372

:

Like just roommates.

373

:

Erica Voell: Yeah.

374

:

And I know that that divorce rates

go up for women, especially in their

375

:

forties and their fifties and yeah, I

remember being a kid in the eighties

376

:

and the early nineties and like there

were so many moms that left their family

377

:

and I thought, how could she do that?

378

:

And like that was the comment that

my mom was like, I don't know how

379

:

anybody could leave their family,

but as a woman at, at this age.

380

:

Not that I was ever at that stage

where I was like, I wanna leave.

381

:

But there were times I'm just like, I

don't know if I can do this anymore.

382

:

Like my daughter was in a

really heightened state.

383

:

It was just it.

384

:

Things were feeling

really tense all the time.

385

:

And I was in burnout.

386

:

Mm-hmm.

387

:

And that's when I was also

like, I can't function.

388

:

Can I just sleep all day long?

389

:

So what have you seen in your

work that's actually happening

390

:

underneath that kind of.

391

:

Katie Rössler: Oh, that's,

that's absolutely it.

392

:

That it's burnout.

393

:

Um, my own journey was

just being on autopilot.

394

:

Mm-hmm.

395

:

Groundhog Day every day.

396

:

Get up, do this, da da, da.

397

:

Not being intentional in my own

personal life, not being intentional

398

:

in how I took care of myself.

399

:

Um, so I wasn't being intentional

then in my relationship.

400

:

And that's why I really

talk about, I, I hold each.

401

:

Partner to, Hey, it's you gotta

be responsible for yourself,

402

:

which means you look at yourself,

what am I doing to cause issues?

403

:

How am I not being intentional?

404

:

How am I not showing up?

405

:

Instead of how your partner's not

giving you what you want or need.

406

:

Uh.

407

:

Often I hear, I don't feel

valued, I don't feel respected,

408

:

I don't feel like I matter.

409

:

And I usually stop the person and I

say, let me ask you a few questions.

410

:

Um, do you go to bed at a pretty

decent time where you're getting a

411

:

good six to eight hours sleep at night?

412

:

And usually like, Hmm,

no, I stay up later.

413

:

You know?

414

:

No.

415

:

Uh, are you making sure not to skip meals?

416

:

Are you like taking care of

your health and making sure

417

:

you like hydrate and like no.

418

:

Are you getting any type of exercise?

419

:

Do you get out in nature?

420

:

Do you get out some sun?

421

:

No.

422

:

Okay.

423

:

So you expect your partner to respect

and value and see you, but do you don't

424

:

take care of your basic needs of respect

and valuing your own body and yourself.

425

:

And they're usually a

bit like, oh, well crap.

426

:

And I'm like, yeah, so why are we

expecting something of our partners and,

427

:

and needing them to fill that cup for us

when we won't even do it for ourselves?

428

:

Like that just seems, you know, wrong.

429

:

Mm-hmm.

430

:

And when, when couples come to me,

they're fully in that state of, I

431

:

expect my partner to do these things

for me and be this way for me and

432

:

control this or do that, or whatever.

433

:

But they won't do it for themselves.

434

:

And that's a big turning point once

you figure that out, oh, I actually

435

:

am supposed to give this to myself

before I expect it from anyone else.

436

:

Mm-hmm.

437

:

And then my partner, I actually then see

when my partner does give me respect and

438

:

show me that I matter and that I, they

value me, but if they don't feel like they

439

:

matter to themselves or value themselves,

they won't be able to show it anyway.

440

:

So.

441

:

This is a really interesting cycle.

442

:

I think a lot of people in midlife

come to where they understand, they

443

:

went into a marriage expecting their

partner to fulfill certain needs.

444

:

Mm-hmm.

445

:

Or be a certain way.

446

:

And spoiler alert, you get into a marriage

and you pick a partner who's gonna bring

447

:

out all the wounds, all the stuff in you,

and be sandpaper against them until you

448

:

realize you are here to heal it yourself.

449

:

Not for them to fix it for you, not

for them to give you what you didn't

450

:

receive in childhood or or teen years.

451

:

And once you start to work on that

for yourself, then you know how

452

:

to say, Hey, how you just spoke to

me, uh, felt really disrespectful.

453

:

Do you mind changing your tone?

454

:

And they'll be like, oh yeah, I

didn't mean it, that, I didn't mean

455

:

for it to come across that way.

456

:

And then they change how they say and

it's not a fight and it's not a battle.

457

:

'cause you know, you stand for

respecting yourself and you deserve

458

:

to be spoken to in that way.

459

:

And you give your partner an

opportunity to do that for you.

460

:

Mm-hmm.

461

:

Instead of like, you're so disrespectful.

462

:

I can't believe you said that to me.

463

:

It's like, no, you feel a lot more

calm in who you are as you require and

464

:

request those things that you want.

465

:

Erica Voell: Yeah.

466

:

That, that piece about.

467

:

Valuing yourself.

468

:

That was a real learning piece for me.

469

:

I was always, well, my husband

would do this thing where

470

:

he's like, how can I fix it?

471

:

And I was like, I don't

want you to fix it.

472

:

I just want it to go away.

473

:

But then I didn't realize that like, that

was me needing to fix my, I didn't need

474

:

to fix myself in a sense, but I needed to

be aware of this, that this problem was

475

:

my responsibility and I could not, I was

telling him things because I wanted him.

476

:

I sort of secretly wanted him to fix

it, but I didn't want him to fix it

477

:

because I knew he wouldn't fix it my way.

478

:

Yep.

479

:

Yeah.

480

:

And it was, but that not valuing

yourself, like when I was in my worst

481

:

stages, like I was not, I didn't feel

like I could, eating was a lot and

482

:

yeah, getting outta bed was a lot.

483

:

And just that Groundhog Day you

talked about earlier was just.

484

:

It was just that sludge every day.

485

:

And yes, one thing that I see

with my clients is that they

486

:

have been everything to everyone.

487

:

They have been keeping the

peace they have been living.

488

:

Yep.

489

:

In ways and making decisions in ways

that make them acceptable to others.

490

:

And they sort of hit this wall

at one point and they're like.

491

:

Fed up and they're exhausted and they

can't figure out why, but they keep

492

:

doing, saying the same things expecting.

493

:

It's that version of insanity where you're

doing the same thing over and over and

494

:

over and expecting a different result.

495

:

But how does that pattern show up in

relationships and what do you see?

496

:

So what does it do to a couple

when one person starts to

497

:

wake up to that realization?

498

:

Katie Rössler: Yes.

499

:

So the people pleaser, the one that

keeps the peace is conflict avoidant.

500

:

Usually they're, they're very, you

know, they might throw in a full, I

501

:

don't agree with that, or, I don't like

that, or, or kind of fight some things.

502

:

But in general that keep the peace.

503

:

We'll do what, you know, the

adaptable one is how I like it.

504

:

You know, I'm agreeable and

adaptable when they wake up.

505

:

'cause they do, even if it's the, the man

in the relationship and not the woman.

506

:

They eventually will 'cause the

resentment will build up so much

507

:

that they just can't anymore.

508

:

Um, I find this a beautiful

invitation of the change that often

509

:

the other partner was asking for.

510

:

I wish I knew what you were thinking.

511

:

I wish you would tell me what you want.

512

:

You know, I don't wanna have

to take the lead on everything.

513

:

So sometimes there's some couples

who are like, thank goodness, like,

514

:

I'm ready for this side of you.

515

:

Which is great.

516

:

There's just a little bit of reworking

the strategy of how you've done your

517

:

relationship because it's always kind

of fallen on one person's shoulders

518

:

to take care of everything or make

the decisions or whatever it might be.

519

:

Uh, and the other partner's been like,

I've been waiting for you to let me help.

520

:

I've been waiting for you to like, but

I didn't wanna step on your toes either.

521

:

And then you have the, the other part,

which is a little more challenging, where.

522

:

Oh, I, I always say it's like

the one partner always got like

523

:

the king-sized bed at the Hilton

and the filet mignon every night.

524

:

And now it's like, no, you're gonna have

to sleep on a sleeping bag on the floor.

525

:

'cause I want the king-sized bed now.

526

:

And like you might get some veggies

'cause I'm gonna have the filet mignon

527

:

that's gonna cause temper tantrums.

528

:

That's gonna cause some reactions because

the system, as you've ran it in your

529

:

home, has been flowing a certain way that

probably other people benefited from it.

530

:

And now you're saying,

I wanna change that.

531

:

And well, well, who's gonna be

like, yes, let's change that

532

:

king size bed at the Hilton.

533

:

You know, like, I absolutely

want to go camping outside now.

534

:

Um.

535

:

But it means having some intentional

conversations, not backing down when

536

:

the temper tantrums happen, uh, that

someone being upset at you, disappointed,

537

:

whatever word they wanna use for it,

doesn't mean you've done anything wrong.

538

:

It's their own nervous system being

like, but I, I like the comfort

539

:

of how we've been doing things.

540

:

I like the rhythm.

541

:

I don't wanna change things.

542

:

And if you have a partner.

543

:

When you say, Hey, I'm not

happy, I'd like these to change.

544

:

Then they're like, well, that's

only you 'cause I'm fine.

545

:

It's because that's what's been happening.

546

:

Mm-hmm.

547

:

Like, I don't wanna change again,

I don't wanna sleep on the floor.

548

:

Like, no.

549

:

So I always say to couples that

are at this like, you know,

550

:

invitation to change things.

551

:

It's, I, I say we gotta tear down the

old and, and my method is called rebuild.

552

:

And we gotta tear down the old and

really rebuild with the wisdom you

553

:

have of usually over a decade together.

554

:

What works, what doesn't, what roles

did you sign up for without realizing

555

:

that you don't wanna have anymore?

556

:

What identities did you take on

that don't serve you anymore?

557

:

And then when it becomes a, a, you

know, mutual partnership conversation

558

:

rather than one making the decision,

the other has to go with it.

559

:

There's a lot more buy-in.

560

:

Like, you know, ha with having a child,

sometimes you can get them fully on

561

:

board with something because they were a

part of the creation of whatever it is.

562

:

Oh, yes.

563

:

Yeah.

564

:

I said, I'll help with this.

565

:

So now, you know, or like dinner

time, like, I helped make this meal.

566

:

I'm going to eat my whole plate

because I love this whole thing

567

:

'cause I helped make it right.

568

:

Mm-hmm.

569

:

In our partnership, it

has to be a co-creation.

570

:

It can't be one goes, I'm tired

of this, so it has to stop.

571

:

It's gotta be like, hey.

572

:

How we've been doing

things is not working.

573

:

I get, you may not feel the same,

but I'm 50% of this equation.

574

:

And to be honest, it's gonna

shake things up if I'm the

575

:

only one who's working on it.

576

:

So let's co-create, let's

shift this and change it.

577

:

And, and it's a bit like, you know, an a

new iPhone or whatever Samsung, where it's

578

:

like, oh, well why would you even upgrade

the other one still works just fine.

579

:

Well, because there's some things

that, you know, newer technology,

580

:

newer things that's been learned

from the old that actually improves

581

:

the battery life and how things run.

582

:

Why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you

say, okay, yeah, let's, let's move

583

:

forward with the wisdom we've gained

and build something stronger together.

584

:

Mm-hmm.

585

:

So what brought you to

working with couples that have

586

:

been together a long time?

587

:

I'm very curious about that.

588

:

Yeah.

589

:

Uh, they, that's just

who was coming to me?

590

:

No, uh, I mean I truly, that's how it

started was I realized that couples

591

:

that were coming to me, uh, were

older than me 'cause I'm 41 and I

592

:

was getting couples back when I was

in my mid late thirties who were,

593

:

you know, 10 years older than me.

594

:

And I was like, okay.

595

:

Which it doesn't bother me.

596

:

I, I, I've always been such an

old soul that I was like, yeah,

597

:

this is, I'm comfortable with it.

598

:

Um.

599

:

But I'm also, you know, over 10 years

with my partner, 16 years together.

600

:

And we live internationally.

601

:

So most of the couples that I

work with globally are either

602

:

expats or bicultural bilingual.

603

:

Um, so the types of couples

that came to me were probably,

604

:

'cause I'm walking that path.

605

:

So I, I write very openly about this path.

606

:

I'm open on my podcast about my own

ex experiences and my shifts and

607

:

things I've had to take ownership of.

608

:

Mm-hmm.

609

:

And what my partners had

to take ownership of.

610

:

Um.

611

:

But I, I also realized in the market,

like, you know, when you read the stuff

612

:

on the Gottman's and, and Esther Perel,

they kind of go back and forth from

613

:

like the dating experience to when you

have kids to, and I'm like, why not?

614

:

We just stick with the people who

are like, I don't know, either we

615

:

tear this all down and you know,

bird it to the ground and walk away,

616

:

or we try to build something new

together, or we stay like this till

617

:

the kids are out and then we divorce.

618

:

And I was like, no, no, no.

619

:

I feel like there's just so many

skills in that timeframe that

620

:

we could learn and we should.

621

:

Erica Voell: Mm-hmm.

622

:

Yeah.

623

:

So I wanna go back to

roommate mode for a second.

624

:

'cause I feel like that that's

where a lot of us get stuck.

625

:

Yep.

626

:

So what does that moment look like

when you say you're in roommate mode,

627

:

like what comes, what shows up for

them and like how does perimenopause

628

:

factor into this, that, that.

629

:

When they are like, wait,

that's what's happening.

630

:

Like, 'cause a lot of times I don't think

we realize we're in roommate mode until

631

:

something's just, something feels funny.

632

:

And my, my husband will say, you know,

I don't wanna be like a servant anymore.

633

:

And I'm like, I had no idea

he was feeling that way.

634

:

Katie Rössler: Yes.

635

:

Oh, so good that he says that to you.

636

:

Um, they usually come to

me saying roommate mode.

637

:

I don't usually have to point it

out to them at some point when we,

638

:

I usually do have them do a bit

of an audit of their relationship.

639

:

How's your communication?

640

:

How's your connection?

641

:

How's shared responsibility?

642

:

You know, and I'll hear, you know,

we function really good as partners.

643

:

We're very practical.

644

:

And I might go kind of like roommate

mode and they're like, exactly.

645

:

I, I also write a lot about roommate mode

and talk about it again on my podcast.

646

:

So when people come to work with me,

they've listened to these things,

647

:

they've read these things and

they're like, you, you nailed it.

648

:

That's what it feels like.

649

:

It is just, you know, we're just.

650

:

Two people in a home.

651

:

Um, so they bring that to me when I

bring in the, you know, Hey, let's,

652

:

let's just talk about perimenopause

and how this season of life,

653

:

because it's a like a decade long.

654

:

So more than likely you're in it.

655

:

Let's talk about what this is like.

656

:

Uh, usually there's, there

really is an openness from both.

657

:

Because there's, there's

a vocabulary finally.

658

:

Mm-hmm.

659

:

There's an explanation.

660

:

Um, the woman is coming in, going, I'm

having an emotional experience within

661

:

me and I need to talk more emotionally.

662

:

And roommate mode's not emotional.

663

:

Roommate mode is fix it practical, you

know, like what day and time, not how

664

:

do you feel about the day and time?

665

:

You know, like, is that does,

but it's just what day and time?

666

:

So this season of life really does force

couples to get back into connection.

667

:

If they can deal with the resentment

and the hurt and the things that need

668

:

to finally be forgiven and the habits

and patterns that they're in that

669

:

just need to be broken and changed.

670

:

Mm-hmm.

671

:

And that's the beauty of being able to.

672

:

Read the books, look at social media

and, and get the, oh wait, this is,

673

:

I always say normal is a setting

on a, you know, washing machine.

674

:

It's not what your relationship should be.

675

:

It should be healthy.

676

:

Like, oh, these things are normal, but

I don't, they don't have to be this way.

677

:

There.

678

:

It's actually healthier

ways to do these things.

679

:

That's, that's why it's really good.

680

:

More and more people are talking

about this phase of life and how it

681

:

impacts relationships because it.

682

:

It's so, it's such its own

transformation in the relationship.

683

:

Mm-hmm.

684

:

Right?

685

:

Like as you know, we're going through

our own transformation, but it is

686

:

such a transformation and I just think

it's a shame not to do it together.

687

:

Erica Voell: Yeah.

688

:

And one of your recent podcast episodes,

you talked about perimenopause is

689

:

an invitation rather than a crisis.

690

:

And I love that reframe so much.

691

:

'cause it feels like a crisis.

692

:

I mean.

693

:

Yeah.

694

:

I think for a lot of us, we were told

like midlife is the guy who goes and

695

:

gets the red sports car, but like,

that's not what midlife is like at all.

696

:

Like that's what, how it was presented.

697

:

There were lots of movies about men

in midlife crisis, but like women

698

:

were just going hysterically crazy.

699

:

Katie Rössler: Yep.

700

:

Yeah.

701

:

Well, and I, I think about,

you know, let's go back to

702

:

how the vibrator was created.

703

:

Do you know the history of this?

704

:

Erica Voell: No, I don't.

705

:

I was gonna say, tell me more to Katie.

706

:

Katie Rössler: Okay.

707

:

Women were hysterical.

708

:

Hysteria comes from this.

709

:

Women were being hysterical.

710

:

So they would go to their

doctor and the doctor would do

711

:

it, uh, give them an orgasm.

712

:

'cause they realized that that

would calm women down and make

713

:

them, you know, complicit.

714

:

You'd be calm and you'd listen to what

I want you to do and you, you'd be good.

715

:

And so they got tired

of using their hands.

716

:

So they developed the vibrator.

717

:

The vibrator.

718

:

Erica Voell: Oh my gosh.

719

:

That is the best origin story ever.

720

:

Katie Rössler: So, you know, sometimes our

mental health stuff works in our favor.

721

:

No, I'm just kidding.

722

:

Um, but that was hap, right?

723

:

Like that was happening.

724

:

And then I think when they

realized, oh, what are we doing?

725

:

Maybe not.

726

:

There's a really big gap of, I mean

this is why:

727

:

Alcohol, rise of alcohol, rise of suicide

rates, um, prescription pills, right?

728

:

Mm-hmm.

729

:

Unfortunately, we can look back

and see different seasons and

730

:

generations to, and see how they coped.

731

:

Mm-hmm.

732

:

By what was happening.

733

:

What were the kind of epidemics for women?

734

:

And you can guess because you

listen and listen in on how old

735

:

were the kids, usually the kids

were grade school, middle school.

736

:

Women were having babies at

18, 19 years old to start off.

737

:

Mm-hmm.

738

:

So that they were, later on they're

having like this, like I'm having

739

:

this crisis at quarterly crisis

basically at, you know, 28, 30.

740

:

And then when I got to the point where I

was in my forties, it was like, screw it.

741

:

Yeah.

742

:

Pop the pills, whatever it might be.

743

:

Right?

744

:

Or, or yeah.

745

:

Leave.

746

:

Leave the marriage.

747

:

Mm-hmm.

748

:

Leave the marriage.

749

:

What's the point?

750

:

Erica Voell: And all of a sudden, like I

had this sort of running through my head

751

:

of like, who were the, the in Jane Eyre?

752

:

We had the crazy woman upstairs.

753

:

Yeah.

754

:

I think, was it Rebecca?

755

:

That she had a woman that was kind

of locked away, like all these women

756

:

who were probably in perimenopause.

757

:

Or menopause.

758

:

Katie Rössler: Or menopause.

759

:

Yeah.

760

:

Yes, they were.

761

:

They were the, the problems.

762

:

Mm-hmm.

763

:

Yeah.

764

:

Erica Voell: Yeah.

765

:

And I was it Beyond the Valley

of the Dolls where the women

766

:

were like popping tons of pills?

767

:

It was a thing.

768

:

Katie Rössler: Ooh, I don't know that one.

769

:

No,

770

:

Erica Voell: I don't know.

771

:

It's from the sixties.

772

:

Um, yeah, that's a whole thing for a

whole conversation for another day is

773

:

how were women portrayed in the sixties,

especially like the the pill poppers.

774

:

Um,

775

:

Katie Rössler: I will say though, if

you go back in time and you look at

776

:

the pictures of the women who were.

777

:

Rioting or, you know, standing up

for a certain, they were women in

778

:

their forties and their fifties.

779

:

Mm-hmm.

780

:

Yes.

781

:

There were some in their twenties and

thirties, but like the, the ones where

782

:

you see with the mic talking mm-hmm.

783

:

Forties and fifties.

784

:

Good.

785

:

Yeah.

786

:

And we are in a time right now where

our voices need to be even stronger of

787

:

what we will stand for and not within

our own homes, within our families.

788

:

All of it.

789

:

So I, I, I think this is our time now

to, to stand up and use our voices more.

790

:

Erica Voell: Mm-hmm.

791

:

Especially the women in like in the US

that fought for, um, the right to vote.

792

:

Yeah.

793

:

They were all per postmenopausal women.

794

:

Yep.

795

:

Yeah.

796

:

Katie Rössler: Those movements tells you

something, tells you something that this

797

:

transformation, I mean it's its own.

798

:

We talked about this summit.

799

:

It's a portal.

800

:

It truly is a portal.

801

:

It is a rite of passage.

802

:

It is uncomfortable and

there's a reason for it.

803

:

Mm-hmm.

804

:

And I, and it's like, use that.

805

:

Erica Voell: Yeah.

806

:

And learning that, like we go through

these different cycles in our lives.

807

:

I know in human design we

talk about the different Yeah.

808

:

Cycles, but then learning that like

fifties and sixties are, and our brains

809

:

actually change so much, and that like

by 60 we basically have a new brain.

810

:

I'm like, I'm, I'm ready for it.

811

:

Katie Rössler: I'm here for that.

812

:

Right.

813

:

I'm here for that.

814

:

Erica Voell: So Katie, what?

815

:

I have one final question for you.

816

:

It's been so great to have you.

817

:

Um, what is one unwritten rule of

midlife that you would like to rewrite?

818

:

Katie Rössler: Ooh, an unwritten rule

of midlife, um, that aging is amazing.

819

:

Uh, we have this view that aging

is bad, especially for women.

820

:

It's a decline.

821

:

We're, you know, throw

us out, we're no good.

822

:

Like, I would really love to rewrite

that and put in, like, aging is amazing.

823

:

This is a, it is such a pivotal

and amazing transformation.

824

:

Think about when you were 10 years

old to 20, 20 to 30, 30 to 40.

825

:

Like all the things you

experienced and how you developed.

826

:

It's amazing.

827

:

Mm-hmm.

828

:

And that's how I wanna step into.

829

:

I am stepping into midlife, but step

into my fifties, into my sixties,

830

:

into my seventies and my 80.

831

:

Like I, all of it, every decade

I wanna look at it and be like,

832

:

yes, what does this have for me?

833

:

Instead of this sort of rule

that's kind of hidden in the

834

:

background of like, this is bad.

835

:

Again, a curse, you know?

836

:

Mm-hmm.

837

:

This is bad.

838

:

You should just be locked away in a room

'cause you're probably crazy or whatever.

839

:

Right.

840

:

You know?

841

:

Yeah.

842

:

He'll just give you a vibrator.

843

:

Good luck.

844

:

Um, but like.

845

:

No, I think, I think midlife

is like shed the shackles.

846

:

Just go and start

celebrating what's to come.

847

:

Erica Voell: Yeah, and I'm

always celebrating like.

848

:

I am here.

849

:

Like, yes, these gray

hairs, they are wisdom.

850

:

Yes, I have gained something.

851

:

Now the wrinkles, you know, I'm

still working through that part,

852

:

but the gray hairs, I'm like,

I earned every one of these.

853

:

Yeah, it was probably a

fight with my daughter.

854

:

Katie Rössler: Yes.

855

:

And I.

856

:

I know you probably feel the same way.

857

:

I would love to see more powerful

women with lots of money who

858

:

have wrinkles and gray hair.

859

:

Yes.

860

:

Running this space, because then we can

start to see that that matters rather

861

:

than we need to look like 16-year-old

girls to be of, you know, attractive.

862

:

But 16-year-old girls don't have money.

863

:

A career power control, anything.

864

:

Mm-hmm.

865

:

So why are we trying to look like that?

866

:

Even in our twenties, we

didn't have what we have now.

867

:

Um, when like, uh, yeah, that,

that script has to be changed too.

868

:

That, that feeling of like,

oh, the wrinkles and stuff.

869

:

Like, oh, I wanna see, I want lots

of wrinkles and I want 'em gray, and

870

:

I want them like doling out money.

871

:

Like, I got this, I got you.

872

:

I'll take care of you.

873

:

I got this.

874

:

That would just be amazing.

875

:

Erica Voell: Yes, I

sign me up for that one.

876

:

Katie Rössler: Yep, yep.

877

:

It's coming.

878

:

I have a strong feeling

that's gonna shift too.

879

:

Erica Voell: Yeah.

880

:

So, Katie, how can people find

you and where can they find you?

881

:

Katie Rössler: Yeah, so love

for you to come listen to my

882

:

podcast relationship reset.

883

:

I'm on Substack, I am on Instagram,

uh, Facebook and LinkedIn.

884

:

Uh, and you can contact me

through katierossler.com

885

:

on my contact page.

886

:

Love for you to come and discuss

with me what's going on in your

887

:

relationship and what maybe is

impacting roommate mode for you guys.

888

:

Erica Voell: Hmm, well thank you.

889

:

And we will put all of the

links in the show notes.

890

:

Thank you Katie, so much.

891

:

It was so great to talk to you.

892

:

Katie Rössler: Thank you, Erica.

893

:

Erica Voell: If this episode resonated

with you, I would be so grateful if you

894

:

would click the plus sign to subscribe,

share it with a friend, a colleague,

895

:

or your partner.

896

:

You can find me on substack, where I

publish articles, host workshops, and

897

:

share more about midlife and human design.

898

:

Thanks for joining me.

899

:

Be well.

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About the Podcast

Unfolding: Audio Letters from the Middle of Becoming
What if midlife wasn't a crisis — but an invitation?

The Unfolding Podcast is a space where we explore what it looks like to really trust yourself, say no without guilt, and live your life like it actually belongs to you.

Hosted by Erica Voell, Decision Mentor and Inner-Trust Guide, this show is for women in midlife who are done living by the "shoulds" and second guessing themselves.

If you've taken every personality test, followed the recommended path, and still can't shake the feeling that you've been spending your whole life trying to fit in – when what you really wanted was to belong – you're in the right place.

You'll hear stories, insights, and tools rooted in Human Design, coaching, and real life. Not to tell you what to do, but to help you really hear yourself.

About your host

Profile picture for Erica Voell

Erica Voell


I use tools like Human Design, coaching, and
Reiki to help women in midlife say no to what
drains them—because they trust their decisions
and understand their unique strengths.

Together, we clear old patterns, and they learn
how they’re designed to make confident decisions
and start putting themselves first.